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The 2007-20xx Recession
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17
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Gojera
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local #16761
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Mr.Tim
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local #41716
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posted
Fri Nov 6 9:03 am
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545 posts · tenured: Mar '05
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gdp is up only because of cars for clunkers and the 1st time home buyers cash giveaway
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tecoyah
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local #229495
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:07 pm
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962 posts · tenured: Sep '07
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Would that mean the stimulus had positive effects?
-Or-
Were these programs intended to do something other than create the results they obviously had?
Likely, we will see a few more months of stability (though still extremely poor performance) in the U.S economy. I doubt anyone can make more than an educated guess at what happens beyond that, as the influx of funds into the various sectors of our exceedingly complex economy will have unknown impact. Thus we instead sit back and watch the pundits beat each other up while we wait to either reap rewards or eat cat food.
I can honestly state I am happier to be in the position of having Someone do Something, than No One do Anything. And, until the Right manages to actually put forth some measure of a plan rather than bitch about someone else's...they have nothing I care to listen to.
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Mr.Tim
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local #41716
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:11 pm
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545 posts · tenured: Mar '05
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the problem is that it doesnt matter what the right brings up,the left has control of everything and doesnt need any right wing BS
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myronenamis
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local #308178
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:37 pm
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913 posts · tenured: Jul '09
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Would that mean the stimulus had positive effects?
-Or-
Were these programs intended to do something other than create the results they obviously had?
or they would be much better than having the effect of socializing manufacturing and banking.
Or
they have over come this presidents lunacy and have started to recover on their own.
or
they found their own rescources to over come the loan locked banks to get financing and capitol from raising it instead of borrowing it
Or...
or...
or..
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tecoyah
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local #229495
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:38 pm
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962 posts · tenured: Sep '07
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I would hope those in power would at the minimum pay attention to positive ideas regardless of who has them (this may be quite naive, but I did see the left at least trying to play fair). It seems to me the whole process of attempted bipartisan compromise broke down over a few months of increasing negativity coming from the butthurt the right must have been feeling.
Now, all I see anymore from my Ex-Party is a constant attack posture, backed up with VERY few ideas. Mind you, I consider the Dems to be little better but they are the power people need to work with if they truly want to get anything done. At least, if I remember correctly, the Dems didn't constantly biatch and undermine Bush....and he likely deserved it far more.
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myronenamis
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local #308178
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:45 pm
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913 posts · tenured: Jul '09
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And I only see the current administration shirk responsibility and ownership.
When will the present day events under the present day president be present day assessed and present day owned....
good=Obama
bad = bush
anything that can be given credit assign Obama
any negative news assign bush
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tecoyah
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local #229495
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:47 pm
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962 posts · tenured: Sep '07
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or they would be much better than having the effect of socializing manufacturing and banking.
Or they have over come this presidents lunacy and have started to recover on their own.
or they found their own rescources to over come the loan locked banks to get financing and capitol from raising it instead of borrowing it
Or...
Do you even see the nature of your supposed rant?
Neither Banking, nor manufacturing have been socialized...in fact perhaps a definition would clarify things a bit for you:
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.
Now, to your other...Ahem...points.
You may note my questions dealt with an established series of fact based Data. Whereas, those you subjected us to carried heavily charged opinion, little in the way of verified or even likely fact, and absolutely 0% valuable information worthy of debate. Perhaps you could take a few puffs from your inhaler and try again?
good=Obama
bad = bush
nything that can be given credit assign Obama
any negative news assign bush
It would seem you have access to another reality, as I have heard ver little about or from Bush since he left office. My only comment pertained to a lack of critique while he was in office, and said nothing of his impact on todays economy.
Edited Fri Nov 6 @ 12:54 PM
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myronenamis
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local #308178
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:51 pm
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913 posts · tenured: Jul '09
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Ok then lets define fascism class? shall we?
who owns two of the largest manufactures in the U.S.
Who owns majority holdings in the top 10 banks?
Who can hire and fire CEOs at will.
Do you want me to go on dude. You been missing for a year or something?
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tecoyah
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local #229495
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posted
Fri Nov 6 12:54 pm
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962 posts · tenured: Sep '07
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Fascism, pronounced /?fæ??z?m/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.[dubious – discuss][6][7][8][9][10] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[11] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[12] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[13] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[14] In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.[15][16] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state").[17][18] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any concise definition.[19]
Do you seriously contend that the United Staes is heading in this direction?
If so...you sir have been gone far longer than the year you used in your feeble attempt to slam me.
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Gojera
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local #16761
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posted
Fri Nov 6 1:13 pm
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8440 posts · tenured: Aug '04
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U.S. GDP rises 3.5% as stimulus kicks in (MarketWatch): The U.S. economy expanded at a 3.5% annual pace in the third quarter, as massive government stimulus helped drag the economy out of the longest and deepest recession since the 1930s, the Commerce Department estimated Thursday.
Along with improvements in key monthly figures on output and sales, the rise in real gross domestic product means the Great Recession is likely over in a technical sense, even as further job losses occur. A formal call on the end of the recession isn't expected for months.
...It was the first increase in real gross domestic product in a year and it was the strongest growth in two years, the government said. Before growing in the June-to-September quarter, the U.S. economy had shrunk for four straight quarters for the first time since the Great Depression. ...Third-quarter growth was due to higher consumer spending, a slowdown in the reduction of inventories, an increase in residential investments, and robust government spending.
Christina Romer on Impact of Stimulus on GDP (CR): In a report issued on September 10, the Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) provided estimates of the impact of the ARRA on GDP and employment. ...
These estimates suggest that the ARRA added two to three percentage points to real GDP growth in the second quarter and three to four percentage points to growth in the third quarter. This implies that much of the moderation of the decline in GDP growth in the second quarter and the anticipated rise in the third quarter is directly attributable to the ARRA.
Recession may be over, but jobless figures hint at 'double dip' scenario
Reasons to Doubt the Double-Dip Recession
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 Slycon
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local #66274
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posted
Fri Nov 6 11:11 pm
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14337 posts · tenured: Jul '05
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The recession is over? Yay!
By all means Democrats, please continue to pound the drum of positivity, and maybe the American people will eventually start to buy it.
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Scubasteve2365
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local #149566
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posted
Sat Nov 7 7:18 am
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6833 posts · tenured: Jul '06
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This positive GDP stuff is crap.
It's positive because we borrowed money from ourselves and others to spend.
GDP is measuring money spent. It does not measure the return to economic stability.
Our government just extended the home buying stimulus. Why? Perhaps so next quarter can have another solid "GDP"
All you liberals bitched and bitched about government spending and NOW it doesn't matter.
There has been no growth in wealth. If I put my mortgage payment on my credit card that's NOT a good thing. You lefties seem to think it's great that this country is doing that very thing.,
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Gojera
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local #16761
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posted
Sat Nov 7 9:03 am
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8440 posts · tenured: Aug '04
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Perhaps conservative attitudes on the economy are a lagging indicator.
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myronenamis
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local #308178
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posted
Sat Nov 7 9:15 am
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913 posts · tenured: Jul '09
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perhaps Liberal disintegration of the middle class and capitalism is a forward indicator of downfall. It doesn't work and hasn't worked any where it has been implemented. And even if it shows some success it is because of foreign investment in capitalism to prop it up.
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Gojera
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local #16761
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posted
Sat Nov 7 9:59 am
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8440 posts · tenured: Aug '04
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I fail to see how posting some equivocal information about the state of the economy, including several links that predict a slow, painful recovery and consider the possibility of a double-dip recession, is "pounding the drum of positivity". I have said many times in this forum that I expect the economy to be weak enough in 2010 for Republicans to make plenty of hay over, some Democrats and liberals are being overoptimistic, and the American economy (the world's strongest, most robust, and most open and flexible) suffers from plenty of weakness.
Positive GDP is good news, and there are other positive indicators, more real than the "green shoots" people were blathering on about earlier in the year. Unemployment at more than 10% is dreadful, no good, really bad news.
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Slycon
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local #66274
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posted
Sat Nov 7 8:13 pm
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14337 posts · tenured: Jul '05
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I fail to see how posting some equivocal information about the state of the economy, including several links that predict a slow, painful recovery and consider the possibility of a double-dip recession, is "pounding the drum of positivity".-Gojera
While you may be attempting to appear as taking the "cautiously-optimistic" approach, I was speaking in a more general sense, as the Democrats in Washington, many in the MSM, and a whole bunch of those on the left are indeed "pounding the drum of positivity". Pounding the drum of doom and gloom for two+ years greatly helped the Democrats win an election, and perhaps switching to a more positive drumbeat will help them retain their power. In the end, it will all depend on just how much the American people buy it.
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